Colton Orr Fights Matt Carkner
February 7, 2010 by Tyler
Filed under Hockey Videos
In last night’s game Toronto’s Colton Orr and Ottawa’s Matt Carkner fought for the third time this season. A head injury was incurred during this fight and the fight was clearly staged.
Read on to watch the video and please comment with your thoughts and opinions of this fight versus head shots from a body check.
A Staged Fight, No Doubt
This is one of those hockey fights that the NHL is supposedly trying to get rid of – the staged fight.
Here is an excerpt on the matter from the NHL meeting last year:
“The presentation (Monday) on our stats, the history of fighting, where we are at today, injuries, was very extensive,” NHL Vice President and Director of Hockey Operations Colin Campbell said. “We tried to categorize staged fights, fights that were responding to legal and illegal hits, a lot of things. The idea was to understand where fighting is at today and what the League has done about fighting over the years when they thought fighting had became unfair and where and if fighting belonged in the game.”
There was no doubt going into the game that these two were going to fight. Orr and Carkner had each gotten the better of the other in one of the two previous fights this season.
This time, it was Colton Orr that sent Carkner to the ice with a series of 3-4 solid right hands. The last of which had Carkner seeing stars.
Video of the Orr vs. Carkner fight
Assessing A Head Injury
As the announcers in the video mention, it was good work by the officials and the trainers to get Carkner off of the ice and into the locker room for examination. However, Carkner was back on the bench several minutes later and resumed regular shifts for the balance of the game.
There is no doubt that this fight resulted in at least some measure of head trauma for Carkner, and we can applaud the staff for taking precautions by getting him examined. As a non-medical professional, I cannot question the decision to let Carkner return to the game, but I do wonder what the true extend of the injury might be.
Supplemental Discipline For This “Head Shot”?
It is interesting that this fight resulted in a head injury and that these types of “staged fights” that the NHL is trying to avoid go unpunished. It is extremely disturbing to me as a hockey fan to see bodychecks to the head, during the heat of the play (intentional or not – which is a different matter) receive lengthy suspensions, while staged fights like this one that serve no purpose to the game but results in similar injury, go unpunished.
I mean, if any fight was predetermined/staged, it was this fight between Orr and Carkner. The game was 1-0 and it was the first period. No reason to fight for either team to “shift momentum” etc. It happened right off of a faceoff where neither player was lined up directly opposite to the other. Completely unnecessary.
Don’t get me wrong, I like a good tilt just as much as the next guy, but to me an unnecessary fight causing a head injury needs more policing from the league than the currently legal hits (with shoulder/not charging) to the head that happen in the heat of the moment.
Yes, there are two willing combatants that know what they are getting themselves into. But, if the NHL really wants to deter these so-called staged fights, then they have to act accordingly. That said, I’m not so sure that it’s not just lip service from the league at this point.
What do you think?
Kyle on Sun, 7th Feb 2010 10:27 am
It’s lip service. At least for now anyway. Maybe the league intends to crack down, but it won’t be for years and years from now. We see Brian Burke talking about how he wants to build a team based on truculence, intimidation, testosterone, etc. Loosely translated, he’s saying that he wants to build a team that can beat the crap out of oppostion. This was the way he operated in Anaheim as well. As long as someone like him, with so much power with the NHL’s corridors is an advocate of the enforcer, and the staged fight, we will not see an end to fighting.
I’m not blaiming this whole thing on Burke, far from it. I’m just using him as an example. He has plenty of company who hail from an era where fighting was a badge of honor and rite of passage in the league.
As for Carkner, we all know the path he took to get to where he is today, and it’s a great story. But he did get to the NHL (and keeps a job in the league) by being willing to drop the gloves. If he stops doing that, he probably is riding a bus as opposed to charter flights. It’s also this type of story which gets us feeling all sentimental about the hard working kid who makes his way by doing a job that nobody else wants to do. Under today’s conditions, I salute him.
That said, I think (and have thought) for a long time now that this particular piece of hockey culture needs to evolve. The staged fight brings nothing to the table anymore. Fans enjoy it for the 30 seconds that it lasts and the game resumes, usually with nothing being changed.
We saw what happened to a goon who refuses to fight with Georges Laraque. They become useless to a hockey team and take up a roster spot of someoene who can actually play hockey. Is he hastening the demise of his own kind? I doubt it, but his case is certainly evidence to suggest that the role of the pure enforcer is more of a sideshow now than asset to a team.
Tyler on Sun, 7th Feb 2010 11:40 am
Kyle,
I agree that the the role of the enforcer has already evolved to a degree. Is this evidence of things to come? I hope so. Because, as you mentioned, the fans enjoy the fight for 30seconds and then the game resumes. How many of those fans went to the game or tuned into the game because they knew Carkner and Orr were going to fight? Probably not too many.
I certainly can’t blame Carkner or, my favorite reference for this subject, Todd Fedoruk for earning a nice fat payday in the way that they know how. How long it will take for the enforcer role to evolve completely from the game is anyone’s guess.
Lekter on Sun, 7th Feb 2010 1:22 pm
I couldn’t disagree with you more.
For one thing, you mentioned that probably not too many people tuned into the game because they knew Orr and Carkner were going to fight. Yet, Orr has been one of the biggest draws for Leafs fans this year (and on some nights, the only draw) and has made a habit this year of at least giving Leaf fans something to cheer about. Brian Burke said right from the start of the season that Toronto would love Orr, and I don’t think you’ll find too many Leafs fans who haven’t appreciated his efforts this season – both with and without the gloves on.
Secondly, I’d rather see a ’staged’ fight any day between two heavyweights like Orr and Carkner than Dan Carcillo pounding on Marian Gaborik because it was in the ‘heat of the moment’.
Now, Orr and Carkner are both two decent hockey players, but the bottom line is, they know their role. They know that fighting is their bread and butter and they know that that’s what the fans want to see them do. What I appreciate is that rather than dragging out an inevitable fight with useless scrums and jawing that just distracts the flow of the game, they just got it over with and squared off. I you can’t appreciate that as a fan, maybe hockey isn’t for you.
Lastly, name one hit to the head that you’ve seen receive a lengthy suspension in the NHL this season. There haven’t been any. Obviously, Junior hockey has been a different story, which is encouraging and appropriate. But I’d just like to point out that Mike Green only got three games for a clear elbow with obvious intent to injure on Ales Frolik. That’s just gutless hockey receiving barely a slap on the wrist and THAT is what needs to be changed.
Carkner and Orr know exactly what they’re getting into when they step on the ice and they love it. So let them do their thing. At least that takes guts.
Tyler on Sun, 7th Feb 2010 2:01 pm
Lekter,
Thanks for the comment. As I said, I like a good fight as much as the next guy. And, I’d rather see a fight than endless scrums and jawing matches. However, the point is that the league has said they want to get rid of staged fighting. It doesn’t serve any purpose in the game, that is a fact. I also agreed with Kyle that we can’t fault Carkner and Orr for making a living…what they do is within what is acceptable in the league now.
On another note. One might say that it is sad for Toronto that the player they most look forward to seeing suit up for the Maple Leafs is Colton Orr. I guess without a Cup since ‘67, Leaf fans will take what they can get.
I suppose we can debate the definition of “lengthy” with regard to suspensions. And, it’s on the Rangers that nobody stepped up to defend Gaborik. Someone should have done something. Just like Matt Bradley stepped up to defend Ovechkin. At least that fight had purpose. Unlike two guys calling each other up before the game and setting up a centre ice rendezvous for the first period, with complete disregard for the game at hand.
The question is: Is this something that is going to benefit hockey going forward? Is the “staged fight” something that we can do without when trying to grow the game? Kyle has already alluded to the evolution that is taking place with the enforcer role.
Kyle on Sun, 7th Feb 2010 3:50 pm
So what if Brian Burke said Toronto was going to love Colton Orr? Seriously. I think Torontonians are much happier watching Kessel do his thing than Colton Orr. In fact, I’d bet that 100% of Leafs fans, if given the option, would take Kessel’s 3 points last night over Orr’s k.o. of Carkner.
These guys are a dying breed, yet having a backer like Burke will slow their inevitable slide in to oblivion. Hockey doesn’t need what they do anymore. 2 guys who play scant minutes per game, duke it out, sit for 5 minutes and have no other appreciable effect on the game.
I wonder how this fight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56ww–j17sE impacted the game?
I also completely disagree that Carkner and Orr are decent hockey players. Take away their ability to throw and take a punch, and they are not in the NHL. I also completely disagree that there have been no suspendable headshots in the NHL this year.
I can give you 3:
Mike Richards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSILVbnofZM
Andrew Ladd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BweXkp20lg
Johnny Boychuk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARXE77Y-GtM
It used to be said that enforcers prevent these types of hits, but as we can clearly note, that is simply not the case. So if enforcers rarely change momentum in a game, if they don’t contribute on the scoresheet very often, and if they don’t protect their teammates…what do they do?
I have no problem with legitimate hockey players fighting for their own self-defense, or to protect a teammate, but these goons are slowly being squeezed out of the league.
dheavy on Mon, 8th Feb 2010 12:10 am
That fight or type of fight has no place in the game of hockey in my opinion. The game stops for this boxing match and then resumes when the boxing match is over. It has no effect on the result or momentum, except that one player suffers a head injury. Quality entertainment! (sarcasm).
And let’s not confuse the type of player Orr is with Carkner. Carkner can play hockey and plays it well. He is the #4 defenceman on a good team and contributes with quality hockey every night. Orr is a goon.
Mike on Mon, 8th Feb 2010 2:08 pm
Hockey’s fights are apart of the game. Apart of the Canadian game anyways. Ask the players of the NHL if they want it stopped? They already did ask all of them and it was a landslide for fighting. Fighting has always been apart of the game and probably will always be apart of the game. When two guys drop the gloves they do it for a reason and they certainly know what they are getting into. Carkner sure knew what he was in for, and they should have let him go to the penalty box. He was fine a few minutes later. Don Cherry on coaches corner had it absolutely right when he said the WORST thing they could have done is take him off the ice. Sure there might, and probably is long term damage to hockey fighters, but they choose to be fighters. There also is long term damamge to getting body-checked constantly over a 15 year career in the NHL. So we should take hitting out of the game? Where does it stop. I know where it stops. All of you who dont like fighting and body-checking then why dont you watch some European leaques or KHL. Stop trying to change something that is engrained in Canada’s hockey culture….and grow a pair.
Head Injury Vic on Wed, 24th Feb 2010 5:12 pm
Orr is not a hockey player, he a a fighter — and everyone knows it — just look at all the posts about Orr on this as well as other sites. If the league actually cracked down on his type of staged fight, he would have no contract. Its unfortunate because hockey is an awesome sport, but when it turns into cage fighting instead, it loses its legitimacy as a sport. And so called players like Orr, who are nothing more than Mike Tyson on ice, in a sport that does not have as its goal a knockout, are ruining the sport. What is the league waiting for, a tramtic Brain injury in which a legitimately talented player is paralyzed by a no-talent brute?